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Questions: Industry Pricing Standards

Questions: Industry Pricing Standards

by Dana Bourgeois, Mark Campellone, and John Greven

Originally published in American Lutherie #92, 2007



Noel B. from the Internet asks:

Could you give me any insight into pricing standards in the industry? One of our retailers says that they get 40% margin on instruments from all their smaller builders, i.e., they get $400 on a $1000 retail banjo and the builder gets $600. Once you deduct the cost of materials it appears the retailer is turning a better profit than the builder. Is this the industry standard? Until recently they were content with a smaller margin.


Dana Bourgeois from Lewiston Maine replies:

The retail pricing structure varies, and is negotiable between builder and retailer. The most common wholesale discounts are 50% (“A” discount), 40% (“B” discount), and 25% (“C” discount). In the case of the “A” discount, the retailer usually sells the product at a considerable discount from the suggested list price. For example, a guitar wholesaled at 50% and retailed at a 25% discount off list price would yield a gross margin of 25%. A guitar wholesaled at a “B” discount is usually sold at a lower retail discount than that of an “A” discount guitar. In the case of a “C” discount, the guitar is usually sold at full list price. The “C” discount structure is usually used between individual builders and retailers. In this case, the retailer and builder can offer the same guitar to the same customer at the same price.

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Questions: Industry Pricing Standards

by Dana Bourgeois, Mark Campellone, and John Greven

Originally published in American Lutherie #92, 2007



Noel B. from the Internet asks:

Could you give me any insight into pricing standards in the industry? One of our retailers says that they get 40% margin on instruments from all their smaller builders, i.e., they get $400 on a $1000 retail banjo and the builder gets $600. Once you deduct the cost of materials it appears the retailer is turning a better profit than the builder. Is this the industry standard? Until recently they were content with a smaller margin.


Dana Bourgeois from Lewiston Maine replies:

The retail pricing structure varies, and is negotiable between builder and retailer. The most common wholesale discounts are 50% (“A” discount), 40% (“B” discount), and 25% (“C” discount). In the case of the “A” discount, the retailer usually sells the product at a considerable discount from the suggested list price. For example, a guitar wholesaled at 50% and retailed at a 25% discount off list price would yield a gross margin of 25%. A guitar wholesaled at a “B” discount is usually sold at a lower retail discount than that of an “A” discount guitar. In the case of a “C” discount, the guitar is usually sold at full list price. The “C” discount structure is usually used between individual builders and retailers. In this case, the retailer and builder can offer the same guitar to the same customer at the same price.

In order to cover the cost of overhead and also realize a profit, most average-sized dealers need to make a gross margin of between 25% and 30%. This calculation assumes turnover within around 60 days. If the dealer thinks he can’t make a sale within that time frame he may need to realize a greater gross margin, or choose to invest his money in other brands. If turnover needs to be proven to the dealer, it may make sense to sell a first guitar on consignment, then negotiate a future wholesale arrangement.


Mark Campellone from Greenville Rhode Island
replies:

Because independent builders produce instruments in far smaller numbers than large-scale manufacturers, a standard discount rate of 40% to 60% isn’t practical. Builders like myself usually discount at a rate about half that of the manufacturer’s standard. Of course, most dealers are more inclined to invest in a builder who already has an established reputation. For those who are not yet well established, offering instruments to dealers on consignment, at least initially, can be a good option.


John Greven from Portland Oregon
replies:

Traditionally dealers paid the makers of guitars half of the retail price plus shipping costs. This was true for Martin, Gibson, and others from their earliest days of production. Martin never did any “incentive discounting” to their dealers and, to my knowledge, still does not. Gibson had a “floor plan” sales scheme for decades whereby dealers had to take a minimum number of instruments in order to qualify as a dealer and get the specific models they really wanted to sell in their market. This system assured that Gibson could move targeted numbers of all of their various models and keep production steady. Gibson did, however, discount an addition 5%–10% if overall sales were slow or they had excess inventory of a particular model, but for the most part it was the usual 50% discount to dealers.

Then came handmade guitars gradually infiltrating what had been a locked-down, manufacturer-only market. Individual makers had to set their prices with very different issues involved. They did not have the advantage of large scale production in reducing material and time costs, but they also did not have the high overhead. From the 1960s through the mid-1980s, most individual builders (and there were only a handful of us then) sold direct to the consumer with no discounting. Others, me included, sold both direct and through a small network of exclusive dealers. The standard dealer discount for us was 40%. This is now certainly not uniformly true. I know a number of makers doing only 15%–20% if the market will bear it.

Today, with the plethora of large and small guitar dealers around the globe, discounting is all over the map; from none at all for the top makers on down to the 40%–50% builders. It is a combination of what the market will bear and what the builder needs to have to make a living and continue in business.

I still have a small number of dealers around the world and domestically, and I still offer them a decent discount. The bulk of my production is divided about evenly between wholesale and retail and I like it that way. I always have plenty of work and a steady, dependable income stream, even in “hard times” when the market goes soft. The only way I was able to survive the steep recession and near market collapse of 1982-3 was through sales of my guitars in Japan. Even though I made less money overall, I was able to stay in business and continue to work. A number of hand builders at that time went back to their day jobs to survive.

While the dealer seems to make more money than the maker at the 40% discount, bear in mind that the dealer is taking care of your marketing and sales and all of the potential hassles that can follow a sale. As a maker, you do not have to deal with any of those aspects directly, and you can better manage your cash flow.

For established makers with a good reputation and long track record, direct sales are the way to go. For new makers trying to find a niche, dealers make better sense until your market is better established. The goal is to build what you love and sell what you build. If dealers can make the difference between success and failure for your business, they’ve earned their markup.

Over the decades, I have enjoyed working both with my dealers and individual customers. They are like family now. Some of my dealers go all the way back to 1975. The combination of dealer/individual sales has allowed me to make and sell over 2000 of my guitars over a forty-three year period. I could not have accomplished this without them. They have provided me with a continuing education and kept me in touch with the subtle changes in the market on a global basis. It is a good, working system for me and (the good news is) the costs are all deductible! ◆

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Questions: Crownless Frets

Questions: Crownless Frets

by James Westbrook and R.M. Mottola

Originally published in American Lutherie #89, 2007

 

Gilles Danis from the Internet asks:

I have been asked by a museum to restore an old guitar. It is a rather cheaply made thing from the early 20th century. The frets do not have crowns. They are just thin flat bars on their sides with barbs at the bottom. Do you know of a source for such fretwire?


James Westbrook from England
replies:

I get my bar fret stock from Makoto Tsuruta in Japan. I think there are a few different sizes. His website is www.crane.gr.jp., and his e-mail address is mmm@st.rim.or.jp.


The Questions Column editor
adds:

Nickel-alloy sheets of various thicknesses and alloy composition are available from McMaster Carr (www.mcmaster.com) but they need to be cut into strips for use as bar frets. Sheet metal places or machine shops that have shears can do this cheaply. ◆

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Questions: Where to Get Mandola Plans

Questions: Where to Get Mandola Plans

by Don MacRostie and Jim Hoover

Originally published in American Lutherie #77, 2004

 

Don MacRostie of Athens (aka Stew-Mac), Ohio responds to Thierry, Bernus Turner, and other's questions regarding where to get a mandola plan.

Although I don't know of a plan for a carved-top mandola, the following figures taken from a signed ``Loar'' mandola and a teen's H-1 serial# 75585 should be helpful in proportioning your own from a plan like the F-5 plan from Stew-Mac or GAL Plan #26.

Hoover-ques-01

Archings on these two instruments were very much like the companion mandolins, and plate thicknesses were essentially the same as for the mandolin. The H-1 had two transverse braces on the top, with the rear brace under the bridge. The Loar was tone-bar braced. The one slightly unusual point on the Loar mandola is that the peghead and the body scrolls were not scaled up with the rest of the instrument. They were basically the same size and shape as those details on the mandolin.

The book, The Mandolin Manual: The Art, Craft, and Science of the Mandolin and Mandola by John Troughton is available from Elderly Instruments (www.elderly.com/books/items/542-62.htm). Also, AL#51, Questions column gives some useful information and dimensions.

Several websites offer plans for flattop mandolas, though I have not actually seen them:
www.touchstonetonewoods.co.uk/ttwp2.html
secure.mimf.com/order.htm
www.art-robb.co.uk/plans.html


Jim Hoover of New Holland, PA
adds:

The book Making Stringed Instruments — A Workshop Guide, by George Buchanan (Sterling Publishing) has a clean, scale drawing of a flat-top mandola as well as drawings of six other instruments, including violin, viola, cello, mandolin, and classical and archtop guitars with step-by-step do’s and don’ts.

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Letter: Passing of Ivo Pires

Letter: Passing of Ivo Pires

by Mary Monteiro

Originally published in American Lutherie #99, 2009

 

Dear Mr. Peterson,

You may remember me — I contacted you a couple years ago when I was doing a Hall of Fame biography of my dearest friend, Ivo Pires.

It is with heartbreaking regret that I write to tell you of the sudden death on April 20 of my dearest friend, Ivo Pires. He has left the entire community in shock.

Did you know that he repaired Yo Yo Ma’s cello just before he went on his world tour? A couple weeks later there was delivered to his studio in the Berklee College of Music (Boston) a bouquet of flowers so big that everyone was in awe and couldn’t imagine who had sent it. Finally someone found the card and said, “Oh, Mr. Pires! It’s for you!”

As he was telling me this story, I said, “Ivo, what did you do with the card?” He didn’t know! It could have been a collector’s item. But being the lovable and unpretentious person we all knew he was, it never occurred to him. ◆

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Review: Earl Scruggs and the 5-String Banjo

Review: Earl Scruggs and the 5-String Banjo

Reviewed by James Arial

Originally published in Guild of American Luthiers Newsletter Vol 2 #1, 1974

 

Earl Scruggs and the 5-String Banjo
Peer International Corporation
1740 Broadway, New York, N.Y. 10019

This book was published in 1968. It is a comprehensive study of the 5-string banjo including a very well written adn illustrated chapter on banjo construction. The seventeen pages in this section of the book describe all phases of construction except that of making a resonator. There is an excellent segment on inlaying using a unique technique of sandblasting to carve the recesses for fancy work.

The book’s $10.95 retail price might scare off the casual luthier, but if you’re interested in Scruggs type picking as well as banjo making it is well worth the price. The technique used by Scruggs is very clearly described in step by step procedure. Thirty-five of his best known songs are presented in easily read tablature. ◆